WM 2004

Meeting via a chat
Keith, Greg, Bob & Dave in Island Lake
Ken & Chris in Greeley
Graham was on for a portion of the meeting in Arvada
Matt in Sussex

Friday night, December 19, 2003
kicked off at about 10:24 CST

Listed below are the topics we considered, with our results in bold. Additionally, we decided beforehand that 5 votes in a 7 person vote (ie, if Graham had left the meeting due to illness) vote pass a measure, and 6 votes in an 8 person vote would make it the law.

  1. A pitcher is allowed to be used as a pinch runner up to the number of games listed in the pitching column.

    Or maybe we should just enforce our existing rules (100% of games played, 150% of PAs) per the batting stats column for each pitcher, knowing that it probably will slight AL pitchers.

  2. No. Understood that we will be enforcing the current rules regarding batting stats.
  1. A player rated only as a pitcher is not allowed to bat unless special circumstances dictate his usage.

    The team runs out of position players and an injury or ejection forces a pitcher to play a position.

    The team runs out of position players and invalidates the DH.

    Would be irrelevant if we enforced our existing rules

  2. No. Again, understood about current rule enforcement.
  1. regarding FA pickups, it should be that you can only sit a pitcher for his final start.

    such a rule would allow people to sit a pitcher to align their rotation, but also would limit any shady usage, such as picking up the best FA starters as soon as a manager clinches so no other teams can use them.

    or we can change the current verbiage to require the acquisition to not occur until immediately before the FA pickup is to make his start. this would keep someone from grabbing a pitcher just to block him from going to another team. I want to set my rotation as soon as I clinch, and be rewarded for clinching early, and if I don't pick up my FA starter until immediately before I play, I also want to be rewarded for playing my games.

  2. Passed that may you pick up a guy as soon as you clinch, but you cannot do as Steve Swinea once suggested, in picking a guy merely to block him from possibly going to another team. You must pick him up and pitch him in the next time through the rotation.
  1. we should change to a 24 games vs. each team in, 19 games vs. each team out format for divisional scheduling

    and if we make this change, i think we should keep a similar schedule of 5 game round robin to get to 40 games, and the final group of intra-divisional games to close the season. currently, the final intra-divisional games are 6 apiece, and that would probably have to change to either 4 or 9 apiece. since we are already upping the importance of intra-divisional games by increasing the total from 21 per to 24 per, perhaps the lesser 4 would be better than 9. or not, i don't know.

    One vote yes for 24-19, with saving the last 4 against each intra-divisional foe for the final games of the year.

  2. 24-19. Play 154, then remaining 4 against each intra-divisional foe.
  1. one thing i would like to talk about at the winter meetings is an issue that came up in game 7 of the playoffs and will likely come up in almost every game 7. steve went to his bullpen after one batter reached base in the first, i went to mine in the third inning ... he was going to run out of pitchers. maybe i was too. and it was all because we went to the bullpens really early in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage.

    Maybe we mandate that no one takes out a starting pitcher if the relief innings available are not enough to finish 9 innings. Additionally, should you come to the limit of your final available reliever in a playoff game (probably would apply more to game 7), the opposing manager should be able to choose a starting pitcher to come in to complete the game.

  2. Everyone liked something about the proposal, but there was a communication gap between 9, 10, 11, or 12 innings in regards to sentence one of the italics. We agreed during the discussion of the 2nd sentence in italics that the opposing manager could pick your starter at that point, but then it was brought up what to do after that. And nothing made my notes about the final result of our vote, if there was one.
  1. if a player runs out of eligible position players during a game due to ejection, injury, etc., the opposing manager may select a starting pitcher from the other player's roster to come in and play the position and bat for the remainder of the game. (no pinch-hitting for this player would be allowed).

    example: in my series with steve, instead of chipper moving to shortstop, it would have been kenny rogers.

    If we enforce the existing 100% games, 150% PAs rules, we may want to say a starting pitcher who has games and PAs available.

  2. Passed. Italics again to reinforce that we will be enforcing batting stats, even for pitchers.
  1. The 2002 WM rule related to free agent pickup when all eligibility is used up at a position be extended.into the playoffs if the players who need to be replaced are injured. That is to say, if (Ken's only rated 2B) Biggio's and Vina's injuries in 2001 both extended into the playoffs, a free agent pickup would play 2B in their absence, being limited in stealing and hit and run attempts. The free agent would not be required to sit per any J-rating limitations otherwise in place during the series.

  2. Passed.
  1. There were questions about application of the current rules we have related to when a manager has two injured catchers. The rule that was applied to the this situation in 2003 (Greg's only 2 catchers hurt, picks up Varitek temporarily) was related to the passing of the 2002 WM rule about picking up a player who is at least a J-2, with limitations on stealing and hit and running. The verbiage of that rule does not seem to cover what happened in 2003 though, as it states that this should only apply when a manager "uses all of his eligibility at a position" ... saying nothing about using it as a temporary way to rectify injury situations.

    Resolved that the application of the rule be just as it was in 2003 and that the verbiage of the 2002 WM rule be changed to when a manager "uses all of his eligibility at a position and/or when a manager loses all eligibility at a position temporarily due to injuries."

  2. Passed.
  1. Resolved that N's can attempt to steal.

    (as Steve pointed out, this may be the opposite to #3, so maybe they should not both be passed)

  2. Did not pass.
  1. The franchises that drew the first position in the draft for the previous two years are ineligible for the next season's first position during the draft draw.

    That is to say, Harrison's franchise, having drawn the first slot in the 2009 draft, would be ineligible for the first position in the draw until 2012. If it was between Harrison's franchise and another for the top two draft positions (positions 1 and 2) of the 2010 or 2011 draft draw, the top would automatically go to the other franchise. If a franchise were to obtain the pick via a trade, they would still be eligible for the top position, but the franchise that originally drew that pick would be ineligible for two seasons.

    The franchises ineligible for the top position in the draw would begin with whomever draws the top position for the 2004 draft.

    To reiterate, everyone would be eligible for the top spot in the 2004 draft. Ex post facto.

  2. Did not pass.
  1. Discuss penalties and enforcement for organizational errors, such as the using the wrong org file incident of 2003.

    A suggested penalty against the host (i.e., the guy who made the error) could be that the opposing manager chooses a total of 2 players (can be relievers or players or combination of both) to be benched in game 1 of the replay.

  2. Did not pass. There will be no mandated penalties, but we will strongly encourage the integrity of the ORG.
  1. For logistical purposes, a team "city" should be a place that can be found on a map.

  2. Did not pass.
  1. During the FA Drop-and-Add period, allow another pitcher to be the 6th (either a new pickup or a current "active roster" pitcher), and move the current 6th starter onto the active roster as a reliever or starter is he qualifies, retaining/maintaining his allowable SL usage.

    Or as Chris suggests, the 6th starter switching to a reliever role would only have 75% of his games and 100% of his innings, like any other FA pickup would. Which is better than would the above reads.

  2. First paragraph was determined to be crap. Italicize was amended to include the notion of putting a rotation eligible pitcher from your 6th into your rotation if you wanted (ie, not just regarding 6th becoming relievers), but that did not pass. Thought it might, discussion stalled, proposal was tabled, then it died as we really wanted the meeting to be over.
  1. Overhaul to our free agent system.

    i think the main benefit to a new system would be removing the first 40 round robin constraint to allow more flexibility in game playing, which is the #1 issue in the SL. but if we limited free agent moves from the draft to the trade deadline, and imposed a waiver wire system, i think it would work. the biggest issue would be the usage limitations of guys we picked up. maybe we could limit the usage a lot, which would reduce the desire to make FA moves. the big issue, IMO, would be to remove the first 40 dilemma.

    pros -
    loosens game playing. HUGE issue, the biggest issue in SL history. allows for earlier or later FA moves. i think would help the trade atmosphere. a lot of trades seem to happen at the 40 game mark, as you can use a FA move to compliment a trade.

    cons -
    how do we limit player usage? largest issue. how do we create a fair waiver wire system? disparate games played could cause problems with players dropped by one team and picked up by another. loss of tradition.

    possible usage limitations would be a scale, moves from 1 to 40 games would limit them to 100% of normal 150% coverage, from 40 to 80 games (which might be the FA deadline) would limit them to 50% of normal 150% coverage. or the FA deadline might be even sooner, altho i'd like it to jib with the trade deadline.

  2. Did not pass.
  1. Allow free agent moves after the draft but prior to playing any games with the picked up players having the usage limitations any drafted player would have.

  2. Did not pass.
  1. Rules about starter usage/removal.

    Minimum batters faced (9) or grade reduction. A starter must face 9 batters or be reduced before they are eligible for removal. Effective the first 150 games of the season. 151+ is a free for all.

  2. Did not pass.
  1. Stolen base excess. Punishment for excess stolen bases is player is physically changed to an N ZERO - effective the next series and throughout the playoffs.

    Even in a case like Cedeno's that did not happen until the playoffs, he then would have been changed to an N for the WS.

  2. The first paragraph passed. Additionally, we said that if a rule break occurs, the opposing manager can choose to replay the game immediately. If the action does not happen immediately, there is no replay. This is for both the regular season and the playoffs.
  1. If a trade is made involving pitchers of different spots in the respective rotations, a free agent pitcher with more than 21 MLB starts is picked up to start the vacated rotation spot until the new pitcher has received his mandated 5 days of rest.

    An example would be the SL 2003 trade of Colon from Oman for Glavine. As Colon was in Oman's #2 slot and Glavine was in Ft. Collins's #5 spot, Glavine would not be eligible to pitch until game 5 following the trade. Game 2 would be started by a free agent pick up with more than (MLB) 21 games started.

  2. I have it written down that this passed.
  1. Get rid of the rule about "team with best record runs the FA draft."

    Why give it lipservice?

    I wrote this because for the 2nd year in a row, the team with the best record at the FA draft period was muscled out after having earned the opportunity. So maybe we should just let a "special panel" run it.

  2. Did not pass.


East -

Central -

West -

Draft Order

1. Bob
2. Greg
3. Dave
4. Graham
5. Matt
6. Ken
7. Chris
8. Keith
9. Steve